This second sit-down between YouTube sensation and journalist Ms. Adeola Fayehun and global security expert Rev. Ladi Thompson pushes deeper into Nigeria’s festering security crisis, the hidden conflicts, global and local angles to the situation, and the internal fractures responsible for today’s outcome.
Speaking with increasing sense of urgency, Thompson explains why he believes Nigeria is facing a long-planned ideological assault, the ultimate game plan of the insurgents, why young people remain the nation’s last hope, and why truth-driven leadership—not personality politics—should guide any real transformation.
He warns that radicalization, poverty, and political manipulation have created a volatile environment, yet insists a peaceful re-engineering of Nigeria is still possible if citizens refuse fear and embrace organized civic action. He also wants us to be open to conditioned Western help.
If Nigeria gets it right, he believes, then Africa as well.
The conversation is blunt, revealing as it is unsettling—perfect for readers seeking to go behind the headlines to understand the forces contesting to shape Nigeria’s future.
The Interview
Q Reverend Ladi Thompson, thank you for returning to the programme. Before we begin, could you restate the condition you gave before agreeing to this second interview?
Thank you. But remember that I was very conditional about coming back on this show. I told you I am not here for excitement. What is at stake is the future of generations. Blood is flowing. Life is being devalued — not just in Nigeria but across West Africa and Africa. I agreed to return only if your audience is ready for action, not entertainment. If your people are serious, then we can proceed.
Q Thank you. Before we get to solutions, can you explain what you wanted to say earlier about Abubakar Shekau during the previous interview?
Ans There is nothing new about what I said. I was surprised people acted shocked. Let us start from Mohammed Yusuf of Boko Haram. When Yusuf was overrun, there was someone with him — a deacon who later spoke to me directly. Yusuf ordered his execution, but before they could kill him, he told the person beside him, “Tell my family I died well.” When I heard that report, I said the family is the whole nation and church community.
Yusuf was captured and summarily executed in police custody. It was an inside job. If he had lived to speak, many things would have been exposed. I always say this clearly: whether it was Buhari’s time or now, whoever is President must be held responsible.
After Yusuf’s death, nobody compensated the thousands he had killed. Yet the federal government paid more than ₦100 million to his family. That was when Shekau took over and began to terrorise the country.
Q The government repeatedly announced Shekau’s death for years. Can you explain what really happened to him?
Ans The government played games. They announced several times that Shekau had been killed, but everybody knew he was not. Shekau himself came out multiple times to say, “I’m alive.” They later claimed it was a double. Narratives everywhere.
Let me tell you the real story: Shekau died because ISIS was embarrassed by the way he talked. I said before that Islamism is a cover for a supremacist agenda. Shekau’s public statements exposed too much about their goals — not just northern Nigeria, but all of Nigeria, West Africa, and Africa.
So, ISIS leadership — I think Baghdadi — sent him a message to step down so they could install someone else.
Q You mentioned “global networks” behind Shekau. What exactly do you mean?
Ans Yusuf’s radical sect had been operating openly in Maiduguri with cooperation from the state government. They had their own uniforms, their own enclave, their own police. I warned authorities in a secret report in 2008 that something was brewing.
They became so blatant they refused to wear helmets at checkpoints, fought security agents, and escalated tensions. When one of them was shot in the leg during a confrontation, Yusuf became angry and began attacking the government. Politicians thought they controlled him, but he had global backup. Many had been trained outside Nigeria.
“Man is a product of influence. Nations are too.”
Q So how exactly did Shekau die?
Ans It was not the Nigerian government that killed Shekau. It was ISIS (later ISWAP). They stormed Sambisa Forest with a replacement leader — Abu Musab al-Barnawi. Shekau’s loyalists were fighting ISIS loyalists.
When they finally cornered him, Shekau detonated a suicide vest, killing himself and several of his commanders. That is how he died.
Q What does this tell us about Nigeria’s counter-terrorism approach?
Ans It shows that African leaders are mendacious, deceptive. You cannot defeat this hydra unless the whole nation works together. Consensus is everything. Nothing I’m saying is new globally — only in Nigeria, where the media is corrupt or compromised.
Q You said the church should take a leading role. What do you mean by that?
Ans Because the terror hydra hides under an Islamic cover, the mosque is under pressure. Many Muslims who refuse to cooperate are killed. So the church must stand up not only for Christians but for Muslims and everyone else.
For the first 15 years, Christians were mostly the ones being killed. That’s how I gained experience. I introduced the terms “asymmetrical warfare” and “hybrid threats” to Nigerians. But some people positioned by God refuse to stand. Even in this government, there is a young minister — his father was butchered in Kaduna when he was a boy — who understands these things.
Q What then should church leaders be doing differently?
Ans First, this is not a time for division in the church. Some leaders were blackmailed, coerced, or lured. The hydra is powerful and has been working since the late 1990s. We must forgive past mistakes and unite.
But here is the key: church leaders must handle the war of narratives properly. What Trump said recently is a perfect example.
Q Can you clarify what Trump actually said about Nigeria?
Ans God does not speak carelessly. Behind every war is a war of narratives. Trump said he would stop aid to Nigeria if the government continues allowing Christians to be killed. He said he would come after the terrorists — not Nigeria.
But in Nigeria, church leaders started saying “America must not attack us.” Who is “us”? This is dangerous narrative confusion. People become gullible.
Q You are saying church leaders misinterpreted Trump’s statements?
Ans Exactly. Trump never said he was coming to attack Nigeria. He said he was coming to enforce religious liberties and protect human life.
Q You also mentioned Sheikh Gumi. What is your point about him?
Ans Gumi, who should be behind bars, is moving around spreading narratives that favour the terrorists. He is ingratiating southern Muslims, creating a united front for extremist interests. If church leaders repeat the same narratives as Gumi, what message does that send?
Q That was what you said because it was frozen again — you said Trump never said he was going to attack Nigeria, that pastors should not say that, say what Gumi is saying. That’s what you said, right?
Ans Yes, so I’m saying now that if pastors are saying that, they are dividing the country wrongly. If anything, we should be encouraging pastors to give value to the life of the Muslim. Give value to the life of every person. The young children who have been raped… Look at the recent nonsense debacle they put up for you to know how beastly we are becoming in Nigeria.
The kidnapped people — they brought them back. How many of them were raped? Nobody told us. Do you know how many people we received who we took care of? Girls. I remember a particular case: the girl had HIV after she escaped. She had HIV. We had to arrange trauma counselling. How do you tell a 16-year-old girl, 14-year-old girl, that she has HIV?
Nobody cares that other people’s children are being brutalized, they’re being battered. As long as you can buy your own Jeep, as long as you can have your [comforts]. Please. Please.
Q So what are you saying ministers should be doing?
Ans So what I’m saying is that, first of all, let ministers say only what they mean. And let them mean what they say. Now let me give you an extra for that.
Some years ago — I won’t mention the year — a northern state… we received a letter from the table of the governor of that state, who was an Islamist. We read it because the head of a massive church — that church has about 3–4 million, if not 10 million members — he had come into that particular city.
He preached on the pulpit and he was so annoyed that he warned that, “Look, do you think you are the only one with monopoly of violence?” Not knowing that we were monitoring internationally.
Q What did you tell that church leader?
Ans We had to leave that particular state and drive at least 14 hours to another state to talk to that church leader. And we analysed something for him that I want us to listen to carefully now.
We told him: the Islamists rejoice when church leaders talk carelessly. They are going to interpret what you’ve said into Arabic, and they’re going to twist it in the war of narratives to show how Nigeria hates Muslims, Nigeria wants to kill Muslims — which is not true. And when they do that, they use it to raise more funding all over the world, buy more ammunition.
And they will give instruction that they must not kill that church leader. Why? Because what he is saying is very useful to them.
“The youth don’t need a new leader—they need a new life built on truth.”
Q So what’s your warning here?
Ans War of narratives is delicate. You may think you are saying something good by boasting and shouting — “we can do this, we can do that.” You are not helping. You are making matters worse.
Q So what is the role of the church?
Ans The role of the church is crucial. But that is something we better do behind closed doors — not openly in public just yet.
Q All right. So you want to talk about how we can get rid of the barrier built up by the colonial masters?
Ans Yes, how can we get rid of the barrier by the colonial masters? Now, don’t be fooled. What we are up against here is both ancient and modern.
Q Why is Gumi influential in northern Nigeria?
Ans Remember that the reason why Gumi seems to be influential in northern Nigeria is because his father used to be the Grand Khadi of the North and of Northern Nigeria.
And remember, the rivalry in those days was based on the demonization of the Christian South, so even in civil service and all things, there was an enmity based on the British legacy of divide and rule.
Q So this divide is from colonial history?
Ans Yes. Don’t forget the sense of entitlement. If you go and read the 1958 “Northern House motion,” don’t forget this was engineered. It’s not the fault of northern Nigeria. It was the colonial lord who preserved divide and rule based on religion.
Q So what are we dealing with today?
Ans So what we are dealing with today is the Osama bin Laden upgrade — deadlier, more intelligent, politicised. It is invested in practically every area of life, and they have spent many years doing that.
Q If we’re going to win this war, what must we do?
Ans If we are going to destroy this thing and win this war, let me tell you the truth: the most in high places who are tolerating people like that boy’s son, Ahmed Gumi…
His father, in 1962, toured the Middle East. He influenced the Islamic body formed in Nigeria in 1962. But let me tell you the truth — my friend Abubaku, who fled to Ghana in 1987…
Q Why do you say America has become indulgent in its prosperity, and what is the role of the man God “brought out”?
Ans America has become indulgent in its prosperity. God brought somebody out suddenly to help America remember its bargain with God — that it was meant to be a beacon of liberty. This man breaks all the rules because people have been so cowed. They now hold the same people who are destroying them.
Q Why are you ashamed of people from the Southwest?
Ans Those of us who saw the ten golden years of the Western Region expected the Southwest — custodians of a gift of God — to stand against corruption and the devaluation of human worth. Instead, they joined in the madness.
Q What is this “treasure” you say the Southwest holds?
Ans There is a treasure in the Southwest. It is not coincidental that the president is from the Southwest. When Americans say “all men are created equal,” that is the same value the Southwest was meant to champion. But today there is denial. The cultural nation of the Oduduwa is being destroyed. If we allow this nonsense to continue, we fail in our responsibility.
Q What do you mean by saying there is a “real Black Panther” in Nigeria?
Ans Everyone celebrated the movie Black Panther. But there is a real Black Panther — an ancient advanced civilization — in Nigeria. Read the New York Times of 1911. Leo Frobenius found evidence of an advanced civilization in Ile-Ife. The terracottas showed advancement beyond pre-Renaissance Europe.
Q Why were those exhibitions suddenly stopped?
Ans They stopped the exhibitions because people noticed the artifacts had African features. Supremacy issues have existed for a long time. They hid the artifacts to prevent Africans from knowing their own greatness.
Q What does this have to do with Nigeria and the Southwest today?
Ans The custodians of that ancient knowledge are the Yoruba. This is not the time for empty festivities — I’m talking about advanced science and technology. The Southwest was meant to gift Nigeria with integrity and value for human worth but has instead joined in corruption.
Q Why are you frustrated with the current situation?
Ans The Southwest should be gifting Nigeria deep cultural wealth — not corruption. A wealthy man, according to their traditions, is defined by different values. Instead, Nigeria is settling for rubbish.
Q What about the Igbo nation — you mentioned they are being provoked?
Ans Traps are set for the Igbo. Whenever attention needs to be diverted, they provoke Igbos hoping they will react so the narrative shifts and people can kill Igbos. I beg them: don’t fall into that trap.
Q Some people are asking: What is the immediate solution? Can Nigerian youths take power from the old elite?
Ans We need practical steps. First, mobilize all generations, not just the youth. If America now says it wants to help protect the lives of citizens — not attack Nigeria — then we must accept the kinetic part of the solution. Nigeria cannot handle the terrorists alone; we have moles in high places.
Q What does “kinetics” mean in this context?
Ans Kinetics means the gunplay — taking out terrorists. Nigeria cannot do it alone. We must develop the moral will and courage. Elders must stop being cowards and speak plainly. We must build a coalition and support the president. We are entering a state of war, not for politics, but to reformat the country.
Q Should Nigeria cooperate with America?
Yes. We must empower the president to cooperate with America. We must also fight the war of narratives. We can prove who killed Kola, who sentenced Sunday Jackson unjustly, who supervised killings in mosques. With forensic evidence we can go after all of them.
“Nigeria didn’t just drift into crisis; it was plotted against for decades.”
Q But is taking out terrorists enough?
Ans No. Even if you kill all terrorists today, more will come because systemic problems remain. The constitution is the issue. The one we have is a toilet paper that protects nobody.
Q What kind of constitution does Nigeria need?
Ans We need a real constitution created voluntarily by “We the People.” We must call for an emergency session, build a coalition, and forget the next election because it could be a death sentence. Our enemies are buying time, waiting for Trump to leave power. Nigeria is one heartbeat away from trouble.
Q What foundational steps do you propose?
Ans We must create a House of Faith to protect morals and values, and a House of Traditions to protect human worth. Tribal identity is not evil — its misuse is. These Houses will counterbalance corruption and set value systems.
Q What firewalls are missing in Nigeria’s democracy?
Ans Benjamin Franklin warned that the love of power and the love of money, when combined, lead to killing. Nigeria lacks checks and balances. We need firewalls in the new constitution. Anyone wanting to be president should not be looking for money.
Q What about improving civic education?
Ans Thomas Jefferson said a nation expecting ignorance and freedom wants what has never existed. Nigerians must raise the value of human life above even America’s.
Q Why compare Nigeria to America historically?
Ans In 1979, Nigeria received an American-style democracy, but like a shiny car with a motorcycle engine inside. We must think for ourselves. If we fix Nigeria, Africa rises with us.
Q What examples show Nigeria’s earlier greatness?
Ans Western Region achieved the first TV station before Germany and France. The Saudi royal family took annual checkups at UCH Ibadan. Every child born there had wealth automatically. People with such a past should not settle for today’s rubbish.
Q What about the Igbo nation’s traumatic history?
Ans The trauma of Biafra must be revisited with Nonviolent Communication. They must not fall for provocations designed to justify killing them.
Q Are you calling for violent uprising?
Ans No. These are days of artificial intelligence. Young people have superior tools. India got independence without violence. Jesus never shot a gun. Ajayi Crowther helped build Nigeria without violence.
Q If Jesus paid the price for peace, why is there no peace in Nigeria?
Ans Romans 3 explains it: “their feet are swift to shed blood,” and “the way of peace they do not know.” The Nigerian church has not known the way of peace. If they activate it, peace will come.
Q Should young people take up arms?
Ans No. Only those licensed by God and law can bear arms. Giving guns to youths is nonsense. If Nigeria insists on violence, then we must move for national gun laws. Every family would carry its own gun — but we don’t want that future.
Q So what method should be used?
Ans Nonviolent conversation. Nonviolent action — stronger than what was seen at Lekki. Creative, disciplined, moral action. Protect mosques, protect churches, defend everyone’s freedom of choice.
Q What African models can Nigeria borrow from?
Ans Borrow from Omualabi (Yoruba ethics), Ujamaa (Tanzania), Ubuntu (Southern Africa). Blend them with Nigeria’s values to create a new civilization.
Q Why haven’t these ideas been implemented earlier?
Ans Your enemy plans 50 years ahead while you speak for 15 minutes. These things have been prepared for 25 years. We will use your platform to roll them out — if you agree.
Q Why so much urgency?
Ans People are dying. Children are crying. Girls as young as 13 and 14 are being raped. Gunmen move freely. Mothers cry. Nigerian women leaders tried to build consensus — but couldn’t.
Q What role do Nigerians abroad have?
Nigerians abroad enjoy freedoms paid for by the sacrifices of others. They cannot keep insulting Nigeria without contributing to its healing. They must rally and help build the country instead of complaining.
“Truth carries power. Lies are everywhere, but truth will always win in the end.”
Q After all these years of planning, what comes next?
Ans Whether the government cooperates or not, we will ensure they cooperate with nonviolent communication.
Q Why don’t you want a future where every family carries a gun?
We don’t want that future for our country yet. If push comes to shove and the country doesn’t listen, we will move a massive lobby and every family will carry its own gun. We don’t want that because in a nation where poverty has been weaponized, it will create mayhem. It is better for the authorities to realize that we are holding that card in reserve. So let us cooperate with nonviolent conversation.
Q What type of action are you calling for?
Nonviolent action — more than what you saw in Lekki. When truth activates the force of the way of peace, we will protect the mosque, protect churches, protect everybody. Freedom of choice is what God wants for everybody. Nobody must be forced. Nobody should use religion to divide us.
Q How does the Southwest history influence this idea?
Ans The Omualabí ethos for 1600 years is one of the few cultural nations in the world that has never had religious war. If we borrow from Ujamaa, borrow from Ubuntu, and bring the best from all over Africa, Nigeria will be at the forefront of civilization.
Q Why can’t you explain all the details now?
Ans There are details I can’t go into because your enemy plans 50 years ahead while you want to talk for 15 minutes. Remember what I said about the miracle at Damam: if you can’t get young people to cooperate, I’m not interested. I’m not a social media personality. There’s a future we must make. We will use your platform to roll these things out if you agree.
Q Why is the situation so serious?
Ans This is not a game. People are dying. Children are crying. Young girls — 13, 14 years old — are being raped. Gunmen are going down the country and people are entertaining them. Mothers cry. Ask Archbishop Idaho, ask Bishop Mike’s wife. Leading women in Nigeria tried to build consensus — but couldn’t.
Q Who are the “burdened elders” you mentioned?
Ans There is a group I belong to — I am the youngest person. The Burdened Elders of Nigeria: Dr. Christopher Kolade, Professor Haya, former Head of State Gowon also comes in as a statesman, Philip Asiodo, and others. When these elders gathered, the temperature of the country dropped. That is the way of peace.
Q What role should Nigerians abroad play?
Ans Nigerians abroad are enjoying a liberty other people died for. They have no right to enjoy American liberty while causing Nigeria every day. Yes, Nigeria hurt them. But now God has shown them what is possible. Rally Nigerians abroad. Work to make Nigeria better.
Q Are you ready to reveal these solutions?
Ans Little by little, here a little, there a little, we will roll them out. We’ve been working on this for 25 years. Whether the government cooperates or not, we will ensure they cooperate with nonviolent communication.
“If we cannot handle ordinary Nigeria, how will we ever save Africa?”
Q Many viewers are asking: Can all these things really be done? Who will lead it?
Ans We cannot unfold in two hours something that has been plotted against you for 30 years. The Nigerian fire brigade approach is not sensible problem-solving. Man is a product of influence. A map is a product of influence.
Q What did the British leave behind after independence?
Ans In 1968, A.M. Adeniyi said: It is incontestable that the British made Nigeria and handed it over with forces of disintegration built into it. It is up to contemporary leaders to neutralize these forces, preserve the inheritance, and make our people free, forward-looking, prosperous.
Q How does peacekeeping differ from peacebuilding?
Peacekeeping is boots on ground. Peacemaking is dialogue. Peacebuilding requires deep thought. Because of the military era — by design — Nigerians feel helpless, north and south. What we hear today is tragic optimism.
Q What is tragic optimism?
Ans It’s what happened to the Jews when 6 million were killed — a helpless hope. That’s what I hear from many Nigerians today.
Q What role do elders and youths play?
Ans Old men dream dreams; young people see visions. I thought I would be playing golf by now — not solving national problems. Zik said: “Let’s forget our differences.” Ahmadu Bello said: “Let us understand our differences.” With understanding, unity can be built.
Q Can truth solve these divisions?
Ans When principles come and eternal values are lifted, truth will win. Nigerians believe lies because lies have been told for so long — from religion to politics.
Q Do young people need a single leader?
Ans No. We are not looking for a new leader — we are looking for a new life built on truth. Each person will play their part. We will watch a new Nigeria emerge.
Q What can Nigeria learn from America’s founding?
Ans The American founders wrote a program that would outlive them. They wrote it in 1776. That program allowed Abraham Lincoln in 1863 — 87 years later — to free 4 million people with one signature. Africans must learn to mathematize inquiry.
Q Why do young people ask such despairing questions?
Ans Because many are mis-educated. Go and read “The Mis-Education of the Negro” by Carter G. Woodson. Published in 1933. That is why many questions come from a place of mental limitation.
Q How will you implement these things?
Ans I don’t need more than a handful of young leaders in the North and South. When we instruct them, what they say will spread like wildfire — because truth carries power.
Q Why has the Hydra grown so strong?
Ans Everything happening in Nigeria was predictable. The Ahola report was never addressed. The Almajiri problem was never addressed. A child whose parents don’t care becomes easy to indoctrinate. Are you better than him simply because of where you were born?
Q Why insist on a united Nigeria?
Because Nigeria’s destiny is to save Africa. If we cannot handle Nigeria, how will we save Africa? I was talking to a country with 6 million people — fighting since 1822. A small place. Prime land. Yet they cannot reprogram their nation.
“Radicalization is not the fault of the child born into poverty—it is the fault of the system.”
Q What is delaying American intervention in Nigeria?
Ans It is Nigeria’s body language. Nigeria is telling the world that America is coming to invade, not rescue. Traps have been set globally. Church leaders refuse to use the word “genocide.” They protect the presidency instead of the people.
Q Why is this important?
Ans The presidency claims there is no genocide while girls are raped, boys hacked, men dismembered. Muslims are shouting: “This is not our God!” Intelligence agencies know who is responsible.
Q What does the international community think?
Ans They tell America: Nigeria says you want to invade them. Without consensus on truth, how will America come? When they come, they must defend all human life — not just Christians.
Q What foundation must Nigeria embrace?
Ans America’s 1,337-word declaration says: “All men are created equal.” Do we have that foundation? If our narrative globally is: “We don’t have a problem,” then how will America justify intervention?
Q Can you clarify that this is not an attack on Muslims?
Ans Religious tolerance is a strength of the Southwest. Every family has Christians and Muslims. There is no compulsion in religion. Nigeria can gift the world proof that human life has equal value. Radicalization is not the fault of young northerners — it is indoctrination.
Q Can you give an example of political mislabeling?
Ans Working for CAN, we once believed a certain governor was radicalized. We buried people in his state. Reports came in showing he was not radicalized — just outspoken. Yet political forces wanted us to change the report to damage him. I refused.
Q What did that governor say?
Ans He said: Our people don’t fight based on faith. Father may be Shango, mother Oya. Children choose when they grow. Any spirit that does not bring progress is rejected. That is Yoruba culture.
“Except we revamp everything with courage, we are only postponing the evil day.”
Q Has the Hydra infiltrated every party?
Ans Yes. It is in every party. I can name people who launched presidential campaigns from extremist sites. The Hydra is not stupid. It has penetrated across all political parties. Only courage and total reform can stop it.
Q Final reflections?
Ans I have worked almost 30 years on this problem. This is not entertainment. Let me know when serious people are ready to go for action, then we talk again.
Rev. Ladi Thompson is a security consultant with over two decades of experience, having served as Deputy Secretary General and Director for Peace and Security at the African Union. He is also the global overseer of Living Waters Unlimited Church and international coordinator of the Macedonian Initiative. The Macedonian Initiative is a faith-based NGO responding to Christian persecution in northern Nigeria since the 1990s.
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